Curse

Jedsia · Jun 10, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Yes, perhaps my initial post was a bit demanding and I did make that posting to ArenaNet fairly late in the evening, so perhaps not as articulate as I'd like.

Many points, valid, have been brought up and I've agreed with many and through the discussion I think constructive ideas have come up. And changed sligtly my positions, I would hope being even more reasonable in them.

Like allowing for players to progress through the game without having to do all the missions, but I still disagree with instant 3-20 jumps.

And putting level requirements on the armors would help, rather than cut them off completely unless you Ascend.

I'm not really trying to dictate how everyone plays, but in a multiplayer game, these concerns I would think are more legitmate than they would be in a single player game. While GW can be played single player, its at it's heart a multiplayer game.

While hoards of MMORPG's are out there forcing grind on players, GW is fresh in the idea that it's relativly easy to not only gain the max level and armors, but also all the skills, with minimal grind. One character could unlock everything. So I dont really see the *need* to have rushing. If you lost the skills permantly when you changed professions, perhaps it'd be more concern. But you dont.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

i am sorry to tell you that if you change professions you lose all the skills you unlocked for that profession.

in order to have all 6 professions you must have 3 characters. there is no other way my friend.

That ONE character loses them, you the player still has access to them with your PvP only characters.

Jedsia · Jun 10, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

No actually thats not correct either.

The skills become disabled on that character, not lost permanently

If you go back later and open up the second profession again, all your unlocked skills from that profession will still be there.

For example, a Mo/E unlocks alot of Elem skills, then switches to Necro. Ele becomes disabled. But if you switch back to Elem, all your Elem skills come back and the Necro skills become disabled.

Think of them as being put in the freezer till you want to use them again.

Juhanah · Jun 10, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rothgar

And yes, the Ascension at level 3 effects everyone in the game, and if you can't see why, its pretty obvious, get a clue.

If its so obvious that it ruin the fun that other people ascend at lv3 i wonder why no one said "how" does it ruin the fun.

I play everyday and i'm having fun. I saw someone lv6 in Thirsty River one day, It didn't stop me doing the mission and having fun doing it.

I finished the last mission with my first character 2 day ago with a very good party. No one died even once and it was all our first time doing it. I had very much fun playing with them and i'm sure they think the same.

Please, if people who ascend at lv3 reduce my fun it the game. Tell me how because i cannot imagine how it can in anyway reduce the fun i'm having with my friends everyday in GuildWars.

DarrenJasper · Jun 10, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedsia

While hoards of MMORPG's are out there forcing grind on players, GW is fresh in the idea that it's relativly easy to not only gain the max level and armors, but also all the skills, with minimal grind. One character could unlock everything. So I dont really see the *need* to have rushing. If you lost the skills permantly when you changed professions, perhaps it'd be more concern. But you dont.

You keep saying this but it's just not true. In theory: Yes, you could unlock every skill in the game with one character switching between secondaries. In practice? No. Never.

This is because there are diminishing returns on skill points you get from levelling past 20. At the moment, for my main RP character to level up it will require over 100,000 EXP, and I'm nowhere near unlocking all the skills in the game. I've done all the quests and bonuses, most if not all of the high-return Temple of Ages quests, so all that remains for me to get EXP is to plow through monsters at a whopping 34XP per. If I were to continue in this fashion until all my skills were unlocked, it would undoubtedly take me the better part of a year of non-stop, unstimulating hack-and-slashfests.

So again, you cannot reasonably unlock all the skills with one character.

This is why people roll up 2 or 3 and run them through the missions again: So that they get the skill points from missions and bonuses and easy levelling without having to grind out tens of thousands of EXP just for one point.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

because it doesn't effect your game at all....there's no reason to care.

Lets refocus:

Ascension doesn't affect anyone else's game, but getting run to Draknar's does because the low level person with max armor can go back and own in the lower level arenas.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

There is a lot more to this game than levels. If a L3 is ascending we're looking at a very absolute extreme. It is hard to make it to the desert and not be higher level than that by accident.

My most recent character through has skipped almost all of the missions? Why? Because I've done them countless times with my first 2 (the times they did it and all the times I helped pull guild mates through that were stuck).

Would you join a PuG led by a L13 R/Me at Elona? Those that did last night sure were glad, we finished with around 11 minutes left on the timer and had only 2 deaths the whole run (one little SNAFU with a bridge and a bunch of Forgotten on it and a Sage hiding).

After the Elona PuG we ran down to Dunes to open that up, who was the one who survived and zoned in? The L13 ranger (you don't wanna know how many times I've run guildies through the desert) thanks to a very timely Res Signet use as we entered the final Canyon and a Forgotton Bow got a nasty critical

Everyone else died shortlly after that and I finished the rest of canyon run.

I do enjoy having my lower level characters do better than others - but I have never used armor from places I didn't get to myself or with henchman.

My best to-date performance was getting to the Gates of Kryta with Henchman at level 7. No one there was willing to group with me until after someone said "I don't play with guys who get run here" and I responded that I got there by running with henchman only and knew where the bonus was.

then I had invites from several groups.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

People are getting perturbed because it very much sounds like you're trying to limit the way some people play their game, without really any valid reason to do so since, as you've admitted, it doesn't affect you. They figure, if it's not hurting anyone why are you so up in arms about having it stopped? And I'd tend to agree. I think if you go back and read over your original post you will agree your tone sounded pretty demanding.

As a PvP player, I could give a damn whether my opponent spent hours punching out idiot AI with idiotic PUGs or braindead henchmen. I completely understand the desire to skip all that claptrap if all you want to do is PvP.

I think you'll find people react with hostility when they feel like you're just trying to impose your own system of morals onto other people's game, and I don't think it was out of line to call you arrogant for it. If it's not hurting you in any concievable way, you really have no right to demand it be changed.

Well,... let me give you another scenario that the PvP only crowd have not considered:

This game is a lot like Magic the Gathering and in that game you built a deck with the cards you had. Some cards were rare other were not. Would it be fair if anyone could have all the cards and there was no rarity? Maybe, but it would change the game.

This game PvP is altered by what skills a person has unlocked. Imagine not having to work hard at getting those skills unlocked... instant leveling a lvl3 char works like that vs. those who work hard to get all their skills... does that dimish the PvP experience at level 20? I think it does, but you are free to have your opinion. People not having to work for their skills cheapens the game IMHO.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

You keep saying this but it's just not true. In theory: Yes, you could unlock every skill in the game with one character switching between secondaries. In practice? No. Never.

This is because there are diminishing returns on skill points you get from levelling past 20. At the moment, for my main RP character to level up it will require over 100,000 EXP, and I'm nowhere near unlocking all the skills in the game. I've done all the quests and bonuses, most if not all of the high-return Temple of Ages quests, so all that remains for me to get EXP is to plow through monsters at a whopping 34XP per. If I were to continue in this fashion until all my skills were unlocked, it would undoubtedly take me the better part of a year of non-stop, unstimulating hack-and-slashfests.

So again, you cannot reasonably unlock all the skills with one character.

This is why people roll up 2 or 3 and run them through the missions again: So that they get the skill points from missions and bonuses and easy levelling without having to grind out tens of thousands of EXP just for one point.

So you are saying that you want to cheapen the hard work and effort other people put in because you are impatient?

Mimu · Jun 10, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I, honestly do not see how lowbies at the ascension area affects the other players in the slightest..

If they removed this option, it would make it extremely difficult for people to unlock the skills for PvP..

I do not agree with an UAS button (for various reasons) and am not a Pvper (yet) ..but forcing a PvPer who has little to no interest in completing the missions for the third time to sit through the boredom would be unfair and most likely lead to a lot of them leaving, creating empty arenas.

If they bother you that much, switch districts or do not party with them.

It may annoy you a bit, but it is quite an important part of the game to many people..

Edit: And for the record, my elementalist ascended at level 20, and my necro is level 20 and waiting in the desert.

But having a level requirement on Droknar's armour would be useful..

Icarium · Jun 10, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

[/QUOTE]My best to-date performance was getting to the Gates of Kryta with Henchman at level 7. No one there was willing to group with me until after someone said "I don't play with guys who get run here" and I responded that I got there by running with henchman only and knew where the bonus was.

then I had invites from several groups.[/QUOTE]

ha! thats awsome! i did the same thing at lvl 8 , and just by chance 3 others had just arived by running, we hooked up and fought tooth and nail through that mission, one of the best times ive had on GW

The Flounder · Jun 10, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I was doing some pvp in ascalon yesterday, I have a level 9 Ele/Mo, I came across this Ranger several times that wouldn't take damage, he acually just sat down in the middle of the match! I used Firestorm and Lava Font on him and it barly dinged him for any damage, I knew he must of had late in the game armor or something, just disgusted and ranting, sorry.

Juhanah · Jun 10, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

Lets refocus:

Ascension doesn't affect anyone else's game, but getting run to Draknar's does because the low level person with max armor can go back and own in the lower level arenas.

Jedsia was talking about ruining the PvE.

I know some people go throught Lornar's Pass to Droknar's Forge only to get them self a full def armor to go "pwn" in lower lv arena and its sad. But Jedsia clearly mentioned it ruined PvE because he have to "work" his way to ascension while some people take an easy way.

Sorry Jedsia but i'm not flaming you or anything.. I just can't see how and why it could ruin your fun in PvE if a stranger that you will probably never see again ascended at lv3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So you are saying that you want to cheapen the hard work and effort other people put in because you are impatient?

What hard work? This is a game... If you "work" your way through the game, You're ruining it by yourself in my opinion...
A game is not to be worked but to be played.

I am playing the game, I make all missions and quests slowly with my friends, sometime i just sit there in maps and chat with my guildmates while looking at the beautiful environement Arenanet created. I am having fun this way.. If other people are having fun in another way, it's their own business and i don't care as long as they don't cut my fun out.

In another way, If it was a work and there was people who quit earlier and get as much money as other people who are working to exhaustion, then there would be a reason to be pissed off.

DarrenJasper · Jun 10, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So you are saying that you want to cheapen the hard work and effort other people put in because you are impatient?

So it's hard work now and I'm cheapening it? I thought you guys loved PvE, why else would you do it exclusively? If you hate it so much, there's nothing to stop you from doing the same thing I'm doing.

And I'm hardly impatient, I bought this game to challenge myself with adaptable gameplay and smart competition. Not play whack-a-mole until my fingers go numb, thanks.

jYd · Jun 10, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

http://guildwars.paniconline.net/mod...iewtopic&t=111

^^ w00t ...i don't know how people ascended at lvl 3....that makes very little sense..you get lvl 2 just leaving ascalon...and 5000exp doing missions just to get ascended... that char 'had' ~6500

=-=-=-=-=-= to those who don't know..i had already done this once..i didn't plan on doing most the crap twice.

Yamat · Jun 10, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

Lets refocus:

Ascension doesn't affect anyone else's game, but getting run to Draknar's does because the low level person with max armor can go back and own in the lower level arenas.

This is the real problem IMO. The lower level arenas need some kind of "item cap" to limit L10 weenies who were run to get AL80 armor and then come back and clean up in Ascalon arena.. that affects me, that affects everyone.

This is a loophole that needs to be fixed.

Samra · Jun 10, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

You keep saying this but it's just not true. In theory: Yes, you could unlock every skill in the game with one character switching between secondaries. In practice? No. Never.

This is because there are diminishing returns on skill points you get from levelling past 20.

Actually you're missing the point. If you change your secondary, you can go back and complete all of the quests for your new secondary profession with your Level 20 character. I've actually been planning to do that with my first character ... just swap into each secondary and complete all the quests. Should be easy, and you'll unlock a lot of the skills that way.

Juhanah · Jun 10, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samra

Actually you're missing the point. If you change your secondary, you can go back and complete all of the quests for your new secondary profession with your Level 20 character. I've actually been planning to do that with my first character ... just swap into each secondary and complete all the quests. Should be easy, and you'll unlock a lot of the skills that way.

After Yak's Bend there is no profession-only quests anymore. All quest give skills from both of your profession. So if you already finished all the quests, you could only get a couple of skills. Then you would have to buy the rest.. But it take a lot of time to get all the skill points needed.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhanah

Jedsia was talking about ruining the PvE.
What hard work? This is a game... If you "work" your way through the game, You're ruining it by yourself in my opinion...
A game is not to be worked but to be played.

I am playing the game, I make all missions and quests slowly with my friends, sometime i just sit there in maps and chat with my guildmates while looking at the beautiful environement Arenanet created. I am having fun this way.. If other people are having fun in another way, it's their own business and i don't care as long as they don't cut my fun out.

In another way, If it was a work and there was people who quit earlier and get as much money as other people who are working to exhaustion, then there would be a reason to be pissed off.

You are keying too much on the word "Work".

As for your last example... I can get done in three hours what most of my fellow co-workers do in about 8... we get paid the same... that sucks too. I think I should be able to go home after my "work" is done and not when the bell chimes.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jun 10, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

So it's hard work now and I'm cheapening it? I thought you guys loved PvE, why else would you do it exclusively? If you hate it so much, there's nothing to stop you from doing the same thing I'm doing.

And I'm hardly impatient, I bought this game to challenge myself with adaptable gameplay and smart competition. Not play whack-a-mole until my fingers go numb, thanks.

That wooshing noise going over your head was my point.

If I play the game for eighteen hours to get skill "EliteZ" but you have three of your uber Elite friends just run you to level 20 and then go get all the skills in 3 hours then... um... well... yes it cheapens the effort I put in to attaining the same item. I personally don't care, but was making the point. Oh, and thanks for lumping me in a group of PvE only people. Let me throw your name in the worthless chump pile. (Yeah I think you are a male organ).